In England: Appalling Care For 1 Million Patients

[AnAmericanCitizen]

For story and readers' comments:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectful-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html


One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today.

By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009

One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today Photo: CLARE KENDALL

In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of thousands have
suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with 'neglectful, demeaning, painful
and sometimes downright cruel' treatment.

The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale of the scandal
at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to 1,200 people died through
failings in urgent care - was a one off, there are repeated examples they have
uncovered of the same appalling standards throughout the NHS.

While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment and attitude
of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost all of the cases.

They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to conduct an urgent
review of standards of basic hospital care and to enforce stricter supervision and
regulation.

Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former nurse, said:“For
far too long now, the Patients Association has been receiving calls on our helpline
from people wanting to talk about the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and
sometimes downright cruel treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the
hands of NHS nurses.

“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of which I was so
proud.

"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of the nursing
work force, but even if they are only one or two percent of the whole they should be
identified and struck off the Register.”

The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from hundreds of relatives
of patients, most of whom died, following their care in NHS hospitals.

They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients highly rate their
NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a year, even a small percentage means
hundreds of thousands have suffered.

Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse with one of
the patients who had "suffered so much".

She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling care she had
before she died.

"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the bedside and in whom
the core values of nursing were deeply inculcated."

Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst Mid
Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA knew the kinds of
appalling treatment given there could be found across the NHS. This report removes
any doubt and makes this clear to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and
they sadly fail to stand out from the others.

“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that consistently rate
their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).

"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it would equate
to over one million patients. Very often these are the most vulnerable elderly and
terminally ill patients. It’s a sad indictment of the care they receive.”

The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with legal action if it
chose to publish the material.

Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82 and suffering
with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her condition deteriorated due to
her bed sores.

Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and had to remain
without food or water for several days as her hip operation was repeatedly cancelled.
The charity released the dossier to highlight the poor care which a minority of
patients in the NHS are subjected to.

Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment in the NHS
doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by more than a quarter since
1996.

The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being ignored as only
representing a small portion of patients.

The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people, not statistics."
Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College of Nursing, said he was
concerned that public confidence in the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited
and it would affect morale in hardworking staff.

He said: “The level of care described by these families is completely unacceptable,
and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that are contrary to the principles
and ethics of the profession.

"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent, highly skilled
individuals.

“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that their care was
unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are concerned that this might undermine
the public’s confidence in the world-class care they can expect to receive from the
NHS."

Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the super-regulator, said:
“It is absolutely right to highlight that standards of hospital care can vary from
very good to poor.

“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know that there are
problems.

“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this area.

“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement powers,
ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases. We will not hesitate to
use these powers when necessary to bring improvement.

"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are ensuring that the
needs of patients and their safety and dignity are kept at the heart of care.”



Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said the care in the
cases highlighted by the PA was “simply unacceptable”.


She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."


If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

[Witziges Rätsel]

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

It's not true; the British like their system. Go back to sleep.

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by Witziges Rätsel

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

It's not true; the British like their system. Go back to sleep.

That does not mean the service is good or that it can be better.

[AnAmericanCitizen]

Post by Witziges Rätsel

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

It's not true; the British like their system. Go back to sleep.

Actually, I'm not sure who hates their system the most, the British or the
Canadians....AAC

No Death Panels? No Rationing? No Cutting Care for Seniors? Read Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel
Rahm Emanuel's brother will decide who gets care under Obama.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203706604574374463280098676.html

[George]

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectful-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of thousands have
suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with 'neglectful, demeaning, painful
and sometimes downright cruel' treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale of the scandal
at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to 1,200 people died through
failings in urgent care - was a one off, there are repeated examples they have
uncovered of the same appalling standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment and attitude
of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to conduct an urgent
review of standards of basic hospital care and to enforce stricter supervision and
regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former nurse, said:“For
far too long now, the Patients Association has been receiving calls on our helpline
from people wanting to talk about the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and
sometimes downright cruel treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the
hands of NHS nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of which I was so
proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of the nursing
work force, but even if they are only one or two percent of the whole they should be
identified and struck off the Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from hundreds of relatives
of patients, most of whom died, following their care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients highly rate their
NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a year, even a small percentage means
hundreds of thousands have suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse with one of
the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling care she had
before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the bedside and in whom
the core values of nursing were deeply inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst Mid
Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA knew the kinds of
appalling treatment given there could be found across the NHS. This report removes
any doubt and makes this clear to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and
they sadly fail to stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that consistently rate
their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it would equate
to over one million patients. Very often these are the most vulnerable elderly and
terminally ill patients. It’s a sad indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with legal action if it
chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82 and suffering
with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her condition deteriorated due to
her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and had to remain
without food or water for several days as her hip operation was repeatedly cancelled.
The charity released the dossier to highlight the poor care which a minority of
patients in the NHS are subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment in the NHS
doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by more than a quarter since
1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being ignored as only
representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people, not statistics."
Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College of Nursing, said he was
concerned that public confidence in the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited
and it would affect morale in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is completely unacceptable,
and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that are contrary to the principles
and ethics of the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent, highly skilled
individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that their care was
unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are concerned that this might undermine
the public’s confidence in the world-class care they can expect to receive from the
NHS."
“It is absolutely right to highlight that standards of hospital care can vary from
very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know that there are
problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement powers,
ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases. We will not hesitate to
use these powers when necessary to bring improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are ensuring that the
needs of patients and their safety and dignity are kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said the care in the
cases highlighted by the PA was “simply unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

give that to gubmint workers to test for 5 years then come back and we
will talk about it.

[JRW]

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectf
ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale
of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to
1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was a one off,
there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the same appalling
standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment
and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost
all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:"For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about the
dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel
treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS
nurses.
"I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of
the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two percent
of the whole they should be identified and struck off the Register."
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following their
care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse
with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling
care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said "Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear to
all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail to
stand out from the others.
"These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it
would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are the
most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It's a sad
indictment of the care they receive."
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS are
subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment
in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by
more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College
of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in the NHS
could be undermined by the examples cited and it would affect morale
in hardworking staff.
He said: "The level of care described by these families is completely
unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that
are contrary to the principles and ethics of the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
"This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public's confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: "It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
"Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
"I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this
area.
"Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement
powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases.
We will not hesitate to use these powers when necessary to bring
improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care."
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said
the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was "simply unacceptable".
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day
and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and
effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall
care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in the
world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US citizens may
"God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to post
something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

The problem lies with everyone saying that they are not going to pay for
someone else, especially the poor. Well I hate to burst any bubbles
here, but you already pay for them and at an rate at that surpasses any
rate you'd pay in the future.

People are afraid of change, the unknown, and I appreciate that.
*
Read this report from the World Health Organization (WHO)
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html*
The figures are really something, we as Americans are short changed in
health care, especially if you are middle to lower income.
Now if you want the folks controlling the money to control your health
care, good luck. I wish you the best, really.
But don't put others at risk because you don't agree with the system.
Under the system you can still spend all your money and BUY any
additional coverage you want...lol

*If you are an "AVERAGE JOE" wake up and smell the roses, you are being
sold swampland by big business and folks here that don't have a clue.
*
*SEEK out the facts for yourself*, and this is *NOT* the place to do
it!!!!!!! Google it...lol....and yes you should believe everything FOX
News tells you...ha ha...NOT!!!!

[Jerry Okamura]

"JRW" <***@noisp.com> wrote in message news:3dbca$4a98411c$5355d113$***@cache6.tilbu1.nb.home.nl...
!FisherKing! wrote:
AnAmericanCitizen <***@earthlink.net> wrote in news:***@4ax.com:

For story and readers' comments:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectf
ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html


One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.

By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009

One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL

In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.

The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale
of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to
1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was a one off,
there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the same appalling
standards throughout the NHS.

While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment
and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost
all of the cases.

They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.

Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:"For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about the
dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel
treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS
nurses.

"I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.

"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of
the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two percent
of the whole they should be identified and struck off the Register."

The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following their
care in NHS hospitals.

They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.

Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse
with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".

She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling
care she had before she died.

"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."

Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said "Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear to
all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail to
stand out from the others.

"These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).

"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it
would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are the
most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It's a sad
indictment of the care they receive."

The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.

Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.

Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS are
subjected to.

Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment
in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by
more than a quarter since 1996.

The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.

The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College
of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in the NHS
could be undermined by the examples cited and it would affect morale
in hardworking staff.

He said: "The level of care described by these families is completely
unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that
are contrary to the principles and ethics of the profession.

"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.

"This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public's confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."

Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: "It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.

"Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.

"I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this
area.

"Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement
powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases.
We will not hesitate to use these powers when necessary to bring
improvement.

"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care."



Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said
the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was "simply unacceptable".


She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day
and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and
effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall
care as good or excellent."


If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC


As stated in the article:
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast
majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care
Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of
patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."

Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in the
world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US citizens may
"God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to post
something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.


The problem lies with everyone saying that they are not going to pay for someone else, especially the poor. Well I hate to burst any bubbles here, but you already pay for them and at an rate at that surpasses any rate you'd pay in the future.

People are afraid of change, the unknown, and I appreciate that.

Read this report from the World Health Organization (WHO)
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html
The figures are really something, we as Americans are short changed in health care, especially if you are middle to lower income.
Now if you want the folks controlling the money to control your health care, good luck. I wish you the best, really.
But don't put others at risk because you don't agree with the system. Under the system you can still spend all your money and BUY any additional coverage you want...lol

If you are an "AVERAGE JOE" wake up and smell the roses, you are being sold swampland by big business and folks here that don't have a clue.

SEEK out the facts for yourself, and this is NOT the place to do it!!!!!!! Google it...lol....and yes you should believe everything FOX News tells you...ha ha...NOT!!!!

It is realy a simple issue. When your life is on the line, do you want to depend on yourself to save your life, or do you want to trust someone else to save your life. When you pay for the service, you decide how important your life is. When someone else pays the bill, they decide how important your life is.

[JRW]

Post by JRW

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectf
ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale
of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to
1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was a one off,
there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the same appalling
standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment
and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost
all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about the
dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel
treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS
nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of
the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two percent
of the whole they should be identified and struck off the Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following their
care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse
with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling
care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear to
all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail to
stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it
would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are the
most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It’s a sad
indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS are
subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment
in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by
more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College
of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in the NHS
could be undermined by the examples cited and it would affect morale
in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is completely
unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that
are contrary to the principles and ethics of the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this
area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement
powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases.
We will not hesitate to use these powers when necessary to bring
improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said
the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day
and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and
effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall
care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of
patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in the
world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US citizens may
"God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to post
something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

The problem lies with everyone saying that they are not going to
pay for someone else, especially the poor. Well I hate to burst
any bubbles here, but you already pay for them and at an rate at
that surpasses any rate you'd pay in the future.
People are afraid of change, the unknown, and I appreciate that.
*
Read this report from the World Health Organization (WHO)
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html*
The figures are really something, we as Americans are short
changed in health care, especially if you are middle to lower income.
Now if you want the folks controlling the money to control your
health care, good luck. I wish you the best, really.
But don't put others at risk because you don't agree with the
system. Under the system you can still spend all your money and
BUY any additional coverage you want...lol
*If you are an "AVERAGE JOE" wake up and smell the roses, you are
being sold swampland by big business and folks here that don't
have a clue.
*
*SEEK out the facts for yourself*, and this is *NOT* the place to
do it!!!!!!! Google it...lol....and yes you should believe
everything FOX News tells you...ha ha...NOT!!!!
It is realy a simple issue. When your life is on the line, do you
want to depend on yourself to save your life, or do you want to
trust someone else to save your life. When you pay for the
service, you decide how important your life is. When someone else
pays the bill, they decide how important your life is.

I feel so very sad that you are so misinformed. Under a national health
care you do pay premiums, you pay the bill. There are always
co-payments, but they will not break your bank account. I am presently
in The Netherlands, I am enrolled in the health care system as required.
I pay a normal monthly payment. I choose my doctor, am referred to
specialist and have outstanding medicine support. Presently I have a
$150 deductible for medicine and then they pay for it all after that.
Now imagine if you have a terrible disease, the medicine costs alone
could break you, never mind doctor bills and hospital stays. Talk to
folks in the US who were insured and the insurance dropped them because
"they cost them too much".....Do YOU want to be in that position? I hope
not. And I also saw in another mail that your wife has NOT signed up for
existing programs, WHY NOT???? Your wife is going to increase others
costs when she gets sick (God forbid). With National Health care you
have to enroll and I can tell you, it works. The Netherlands is number
17 on the World Health Org list for care, out of 119 countries. The US
is 37.
I am NOT preaching that we should go to a European health care system,
but when you look on the list and see who gives better health care than
the US, we need to get our thinking caps on.
The Republicans with all their big mouths about what the Democrats are
attempting is failing on deaf ears. If they really carded for you, they
would have presented their "BIG HEALTH CARE PLAN" eight years ago. Now
if you like smoke blown in your face, vote Republican please. You'll get
eight more years of the same crap.
Frankly I'm sick of their rhetoric, their non performance and failure to
even field a decent candidate. They can do much better but they are too
busy bickering within and planting false misleading information.

If you are happy with them, I'll close and wish you luck. You and the
wife will need it.

Have a great day and please stay healthy.

JRW

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by JRW

Post by JRW

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectf
ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released
today. By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale
of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to
1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was a one off,
there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the same appalling
standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment
and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost
all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about the
dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel
treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS
nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of
the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two percent
of the whole they should be identified and struck off the Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following their
care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse
with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling
care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear to
all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail to
stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it
would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are the
most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It’s a sad
indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS are
subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment
in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by
more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College
of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in the NHS
could be undermined by the examples cited and it would affect morale
in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is completely
unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that
are contrary to the principles and ethics of the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this
area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement
powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases.
We will not hesitate to use these powers when necessary to bring
improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said
the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day
and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and
effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall
care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent
of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to post
something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

The problem lies with everyone saying that they are not going to
pay for someone else, especially the poor. Well I hate to burst
any bubbles here, but you already pay for them and at an rate at
that surpasses any rate you'd pay in the future.
People are afraid of change, the unknown, and I appreciate that.
*
Read this report from the World Health Organization (WHO)
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html*
The figures are really something, we as Americans are short
changed in health care, especially if you are middle to lower income.
Now if you want the folks controlling the money to control your
health care, good luck. I wish you the best, really.
But don't put others at risk because you don't agree with the
system. Under the system you can still spend all your money and
BUY any additional coverage you want...lol
*If you are an "AVERAGE JOE" wake up and smell the roses, you are
being sold swampland by big business and folks here that don't
have a clue.
*
*SEEK out the facts for yourself*, and this is *NOT* the place to
do it!!!!!!! Google it...lol....and yes you should believe
everything FOX News tells you...ha ha...NOT!!!!
It is realy a simple issue. When your life is on the line, do you
want to depend on yourself to save your life, or do you want to
trust someone else to save your life. When you pay for the
service, you decide how important your life is. When someone else
pays the bill, they decide how important your life is.

I feel so very sad that you are so misinformed. Under a national health
care you do pay premiums, you pay the bill. There are always co-payments,
but they will not break your bank account. I am presently in The
Netherlands, I am enrolled in the health care system as required. I pay a
normal monthly payment. I choose my doctor, am referred to specialist and
have outstanding medicine support. Presently I have a $150 deductible for
medicine and then they pay for it all after that. Now imagine if you have
a terrible disease, the medicine costs alone could break you, never mind
doctor bills and hospital stays. Talk to folks in the US who were insured
and the insurance dropped them because "they cost them too much".....Do
YOU want to be in that position? I hope not. And I also saw in another
mail that your wife has NOT signed up for existing programs, WHY NOT????
Your wife is going to increase others costs when she gets sick (God
forbid). With National Health care you have to enroll and I can tell you,
it works. The Netherlands is number 17 on the World Health Org list for
care, out of 119 countries. The US is 37.
I am NOT preaching that we should go to a European health care system, but
when you look on the list and see who gives better health care than the
US, we need to get our thinking caps on.
The Republicans with all their big mouths about what the Democrats are
attempting is failing on deaf ears. If they really carded for you, they
would have presented their "BIG HEALTH CARE PLAN" eight years ago. Now if
you like smoke blown in your face, vote Republican please. You'll get
eight more years of the same crap.
Frankly I'm sick of their rhetoric, their non performance and failure to
even field a decent candidate. They can do much better but they are too
busy bickering within and planting false misleading information.
If you are happy with them, I'll close and wish you luck. You and the wife
will need it.
Have a great day and please stay healthy.

Let me suggest it is a question of how much freedom you want. When you
depend on someone else for anything you need, you are dependent on that
someone to give you what you want or need. And when you do that, they can
give you what you want or need, or they can refuse to give you what you want
or need. When you depend on yourself to provide what you need, you are in
control of getting what you want or need.

Post by JRW
JRW

[!FisherKing!]

Post by Jerry Okamura
Let me suggest it is a question of how much freedom you want. When
you depend on someone else for anything you need, you are dependent on
that someone to give you what you want or need. And when you do that,
they can give you what you want or need, or they can refuse to give
you what you want or need. When you depend on yourself to provide
what you need, you are in control of getting what you want or need.

JRW

Unfortunately, that's true. When you drive down the highway and encounter
potholes and pavement turned to rubble, you are getting a service that
you paid for with your tax dollars. Through a gas tax or property tax,
the government hires out to a road pavement company, perhaps one that you
or your neighbor works for, to come down and fix that road. Scrape off
all of the old muck and replace it with a nice smooth surface that your
car will travel across without encountering any holes or broken pavement.
So, some month after the job is done, the road returns to the same state
that it was in before. What do you do? Often the road crew comes back,
does the same half assed job, get's paid with your tax dollars and goes
back home to have the job repeated until you get someone with some
responsibility in there to get the job done right. Perhaps the mayor's
wife's brother was the contractor and he was in cahoots with the mayor to
do a shitty job and get paid to do it over and over. Maybe nobody
checked the contrators credentials and the guys was working out of his
garage with a red wagon and a John Deere Lawn Tractor.
The one thing that YOU don't do is go down and fix it yourself. You
don't take over the services of the fire dept, the police dept, air
traffic controller, the Coast Guard, the CIA, or any other service that
you pay for with your tax dollars. You get competent people and
organization to do those things that you can't do youself....or shouldn't
do youself. You don't want the guy from the next block who reroofed his
house three times before he got it right to be your local fire brigade
chief.
As a citizen who pays taxes, you should be aware of how your tax dollars
are getting spent. When your tax dollars are going out the back door to
pay for health services for others and the money is in no way regulated,
or accounted for, but are merely used to prop up a broken system, you
need to fix the process. Insurance companies are taking your money and
lining their pockets in our "free enterprise" system while denying you
coverage and overcharging you and everyone else up the ass for
substandard service. When hospitals have to downgrade their services
across the board to meet their budgets, because they must provide a level
of service for which they are not being paid by the insurance companies,
then YOU loose. You drive over the potholes and rubble in the streets and
it's out of your control. You cant' vote out the CEO of Cigna because he
fucks you out of your claim, but you can get your claim taken care of
with a government option and still vote out the guy who represents you if
he's not doing his job.
And, Good Luck getting that road fixed.

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by Jerry Okamura
Let me suggest it is a question of how much freedom you want. When
you depend on someone else for anything you need, you are dependent on
that someone to give you what you want or need. And when you do that,
they can give you what you want or need, or they can refuse to give
you what you want or need. When you depend on yourself to provide
what you need, you are in control of getting what you want or need.

JRW

Unfortunately, that's true. When you drive down the highway and encounter
potholes and pavement turned to rubble, you are getting a service that
you paid for with your tax dollars. Through a gas tax or property tax,
the government hires out to a road pavement company, perhaps one that you
or your neighbor works for, to come down and fix that road. Scrape off
all of the old muck and replace it with a nice smooth surface that your
car will travel across without encountering any holes or broken pavement.
So, some month after the job is done, the road returns to the same state
that it was in before. What do you do? Often the road crew comes back,
does the same half assed job, get's paid with your tax dollars and goes
back home to have the job repeated until you get someone with some
responsibility in there to get the job done right. Perhaps the mayor's
wife's brother was the contractor and he was in cahoots with the mayor to
do a shitty job and get paid to do it over and over. Maybe nobody
checked the contrators credentials and the guys was working out of his
garage with a red wagon and a John Deere Lawn Tractor.
The one thing that YOU don't do is go down and fix it yourself. You
don't take over the services of the fire dept, the police dept, air
traffic controller, the Coast Guard, the CIA, or any other service that
you pay for with your tax dollars. You get competent people and
organization to do those things that you can't do youself....or shouldn't
do youself. You don't want the guy from the next block who reroofed his
house three times before he got it right to be your local fire brigade
chief.
As a citizen who pays taxes, you should be aware of how your tax dollars
are getting spent. When your tax dollars are going out the back door to
pay for health services for others and the money is in no way regulated,
or accounted for, but are merely used to prop up a broken system, you
need to fix the process. Insurance companies are taking your money and
lining their pockets in our "free enterprise" system while denying you
coverage and overcharging you and everyone else up the ass for
substandard service. When hospitals have to downgrade their services
across the board to meet their budgets, because they must provide a level
of service for which they are not being paid by the insurance companies,
then YOU loose. You drive over the potholes and rubble in the streets and
it's out of your control. You cant' vote out the CEO of Cigna because he
fucks you out of your claim, but you can get your claim taken care of
with a government option and still vote out the guy who represents you if
he's not doing his job.
And, Good Luck getting that road fixed.

Would the road be in better shape or worse shape if the government did not
take responsibility for that road?

[!FisherKing!]

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by Jerry Okamura
Let me suggest it is a question of how much freedom you want. When
you depend on someone else for anything you need, you are dependent
on that someone to give you what you want or need. And when you do
that, they can give you what you want or need, or they can refuse to
give you what you want or need. When you depend on yourself to
provide what you need, you are in control of getting what you want
or need.

JRW

Unfortunately, that's true. When you drive down the highway and
encounter potholes and pavement turned to rubble, you are getting a
service that you paid for with your tax dollars. Through a gas tax or
property tax, the government hires out to a road pavement company,
perhaps one that you or your neighbor works for, to come down and fix
that road. Scrape off all of the old muck and replace it with a nice
smooth surface that your car will travel across without encountering
any holes or broken pavement. So, some month after the job is done,
the road returns to the same state that it was in before. What do you
do? Often the road crew comes back, does the same half assed job,
get's paid with your tax dollars and goes back home to have the job
repeated until you get someone with some responsibility in there to
get the job done right. Perhaps the mayor's wife's brother was the
contractor and he was in cahoots with the mayor to do a shitty job
and get paid to do it over and over. Maybe nobody checked the
contrators credentials and the guys was working out of his garage
with a red wagon and a John Deere Lawn Tractor. The one thing that
YOU don't do is go down and fix it yourself. You don't take over the
services of the fire dept, the police dept, air traffic controller,
the Coast Guard, the CIA, or any other service that you pay for with
your tax dollars. You get competent people and organization to do
those things that you can't do youself....or shouldn't do youself.
You don't want the guy from the next block who reroofed his house
three times before he got it right to be your local fire brigade
chief. As a citizen who pays taxes, you should be aware of how your
tax dollars are getting spent. When your tax dollars are going out
the back door to pay for health services for others and the money is
in no way regulated, or accounted for, but are merely used to prop
up a broken system, you need to fix the process. Insurance companies
are taking your money and lining their pockets in our "free
enterprise" system while denying you coverage and overcharging you
and everyone else up the ass for substandard service. When hospitals
have to downgrade their services across the board to meet their
budgets, because they must provide a level of service for which they
are not being paid by the insurance companies, then YOU loose. You
drive over the potholes and rubble in the streets and it's out of
your control. You cant' vote out the CEO of Cigna because he fucks
you out of your claim, but you can get your claim taken care of with
a government option and still vote out the guy who represents you if
he's not doing his job.
And, Good Luck getting that road fixed.

Would the road be in better shape or worse shape if the government did
not take responsibility for that road?

YOU are that government. You, your next door neighbor, the bank teller,
your mother, and everyone who lives in your community who drives on that
road, who pays the taxes for maintaining that road is the government. Has
nobody ever figured that out yet?

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by Jerry Okamura
Let me suggest it is a question of how much freedom you want. When
you depend on someone else for anything you need, you are dependent
on that someone to give you what you want or need. And when you do
that, they can give you what you want or need, or they can refuse to
give you what you want or need. When you depend on yourself to
provide what you need, you are in control of getting what you want
or need.

JRW

Unfortunately, that's true. When you drive down the highway and
encounter potholes and pavement turned to rubble, you are getting a
service that you paid for with your tax dollars. Through a gas tax or
property tax, the government hires out to a road pavement company,
perhaps one that you or your neighbor works for, to come down and fix
that road. Scrape off all of the old muck and replace it with a nice
smooth surface that your car will travel across without encountering
any holes or broken pavement. So, some month after the job is done,
the road returns to the same state that it was in before. What do you
do? Often the road crew comes back, does the same half assed job,
get's paid with your tax dollars and goes back home to have the job
repeated until you get someone with some responsibility in there to
get the job done right. Perhaps the mayor's wife's brother was the
contractor and he was in cahoots with the mayor to do a shitty job
and get paid to do it over and over. Maybe nobody checked the
contrators credentials and the guys was working out of his garage
with a red wagon and a John Deere Lawn Tractor. The one thing that
YOU don't do is go down and fix it yourself. You don't take over the
services of the fire dept, the police dept, air traffic controller,
the Coast Guard, the CIA, or any other service that you pay for with
your tax dollars. You get competent people and organization to do
those things that you can't do youself....or shouldn't do youself.
You don't want the guy from the next block who reroofed his house
three times before he got it right to be your local fire brigade
chief. As a citizen who pays taxes, you should be aware of how your
tax dollars are getting spent. When your tax dollars are going out
the back door to pay for health services for others and the money is
in no way regulated, or accounted for, but are merely used to prop
up a broken system, you need to fix the process. Insurance companies
are taking your money and lining their pockets in our "free
enterprise" system while denying you coverage and overcharging you
and everyone else up the ass for substandard service. When hospitals
have to downgrade their services across the board to meet their
budgets, because they must provide a level of service for which they
are not being paid by the insurance companies, then YOU loose. You
drive over the potholes and rubble in the streets and it's out of
your control. You cant' vote out the CEO of Cigna because he fucks
you out of your claim, but you can get your claim taken care of with
a government option and still vote out the guy who represents you if
he's not doing his job.
And, Good Luck getting that road fixed.

Would the road be in better shape or worse shape if the government did
not take responsibility for that road?

YOU are that government. You, your next door neighbor, the bank teller,
your mother, and everyone who lives in your community who drives on that
road, who pays the taxes for maintaining that road is the government. Has
nobody ever figured that out yet?

Relevance?

[!FisherKing!]

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by Jerry Okamura
Let me suggest it is a question of how much freedom you want.
When you depend on someone else for anything you need, you are
dependent on that someone to give you what you want or need. And
when you do that, they can give you what you want or need, or they
can refuse to give you what you want or need. When you depend on
yourself to provide what you need, you are in control of getting
what you want or need.

JRW

Unfortunately, that's true. When you drive down the highway and
encounter potholes and pavement turned to rubble, you are getting a
service that you paid for with your tax dollars. Through a gas tax
or property tax, the government hires out to a road pavement
company, perhaps one that you or your neighbor works for, to come
down and fix that road. Scrape off all of the old muck and replace
it with a nice smooth surface that your car will travel across
without encountering any holes or broken pavement. So, some month
after the job is done, the road returns to the same state that it
was in before. What do you do? Often the road crew comes back,
does the same half assed job, get's paid with your tax dollars and
goes back home to have the job repeated until you get someone with
some responsibility in there to get the job done right. Perhaps the
mayor's wife's brother was the contractor and he was in cahoots
with the mayor to do a shitty job and get paid to do it over and
over. Maybe nobody checked the contrators credentials and the guys
was working out of his garage with a red wagon and a John Deere
Lawn Tractor. The one thing that YOU don't do is go down and fix it
yourself. You don't take over the services of the fire dept, the
police dept, air traffic controller, the Coast Guard, the CIA, or
any other service that you pay for with your tax dollars. You get
competent people and organization to do those things that you can't
do youself....or shouldn't do youself. You don't want the guy from
the next block who reroofed his house three times before he got it
right to be your local fire brigade chief. As a citizen who pays
taxes, you should be aware of how your tax dollars are getting
spent. When your tax dollars are going out the back door to pay
for health services for others and the money is in no way
regulated, or accounted for, but are merely used to prop up a
broken system, you need to fix the process. Insurance companies
are taking your money and lining their pockets in our "free
enterprise" system while denying you coverage and overcharging you
and everyone else up the ass for substandard service. When
hospitals have to downgrade their services across the board to meet
their budgets, because they must provide a level of service for
which they are not being paid by the insurance companies, then YOU
loose. You drive over the potholes and rubble in the streets and
it's out of your control. You cant' vote out the CEO of Cigna
because he fucks you out of your claim, but you can get your claim
taken care of with a government option and still vote out the guy
who represents you if he's not doing his job.
And, Good Luck getting that road fixed.

Would the road be in better shape or worse shape if the government
did not take responsibility for that road?

YOU are that government. You, your next door neighbor, the bank
teller, your mother, and everyone who lives in your community who
drives on that road, who pays the taxes for maintaining that road is
the government. Has nobody ever figured that out yet?

Relevance?

Over your head, I guess.

[JRW]

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW

Post by JRW

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectf
ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released
today. By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims
hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale
of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to
1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was a one off,
there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the same appalling
standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment
and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost
all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about the
dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes
downright cruel
treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS
nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of
the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two percent
of the whole they should be identified and struck off the Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died,
following their
care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse
with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling
care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear to
all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail to
stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it
would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are the
most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It’s a sad
indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS are
subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment
in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses
increasing by
more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College
of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in the NHS
could be undermined by the examples cited and it would affect morale
in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is completely
unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that
are contrary to the principles and ethics of the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this
area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement
powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases.
We will not hesitate to use these powers when necessary to bring
improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said
the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day
and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and
effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall
care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative
of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93
percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around
17th in the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage
of US citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50%
65, 75%? England looks better and better everytime a right winger
tries to post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

The problem lies with everyone saying that they are not going to
pay for someone else, especially the poor. Well I hate to burst
any bubbles here, but you already pay for them and at an rate at
that surpasses any rate you'd pay in the future.
People are afraid of change, the unknown, and I appreciate that.
*
Read this report from the World Health Organization (WHO)
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html*
The figures are really something, we as Americans are short
changed in health care, especially if you are middle to lower income.
Now if you want the folks controlling the money to control your
health care, good luck. I wish you the best, really.
But don't put others at risk because you don't agree with the
system. Under the system you can still spend all your money and
BUY any additional coverage you want...lol
*If you are an "AVERAGE JOE" wake up and smell the roses, you are
being sold swampland by big business and folks here that don't
have a clue.
*
*SEEK out the facts for yourself*, and this is *NOT* the place to
do it!!!!!!! Google it...lol....and yes you should believe
everything FOX News tells you...ha ha...NOT!!!!
It is realy a simple issue. When your life is on the line, do you
want to depend on yourself to save your life, or do you want to
trust someone else to save your life. When you pay for the
service, you decide how important your life is. When someone else
pays the bill, they decide how important your life is.

I feel so very sad that you are so misinformed. Under a national
health care you do pay premiums, you pay the bill. There are always
co-payments, but they will not break your bank account. I am
presently in The Netherlands, I am enrolled in the health care system
as required. I pay a normal monthly payment. I choose my doctor, am
referred to specialist and have outstanding medicine support.
Presently I have a $150 deductible for medicine and then they pay for
it all after that. Now imagine if you have a terrible disease, the
medicine costs alone could break you, never mind doctor bills and
hospital stays. Talk to folks in the US who were insured and the
insurance dropped them because "they cost them too much".....Do YOU
want to be in that position? I hope not. And I also saw in another
mail that your wife has NOT signed up for existing programs, WHY
NOT???? Your wife is going to increase others costs when she gets
sick (God forbid). With National Health care you have to enroll and I
can tell you, it works. The Netherlands is number 17 on the World
Health Org list for care, out of 119 countries. The US is 37.
I am NOT preaching that we should go to a European health care
system, but when you look on the list and see who gives better health
care than the US, we need to get our thinking caps on.
The Republicans with all their big mouths about what the Democrats
are attempting is failing on deaf ears. If they really carded for
you, they would have presented their "BIG HEALTH CARE PLAN" eight
years ago. Now if you like smoke blown in your face, vote Republican
please. You'll get eight more years of the same crap.
Frankly I'm sick of their rhetoric, their non performance and failure
to even field a decent candidate. They can do much better but they
are too busy bickering within and planting false misleading information.
If you are happy with them, I'll close and wish you luck. You and the
wife will need it.
Have a great day and please stay healthy.

Let me suggest it is a question of how much freedom you want. When
you depend on someone else for anything you need, you are dependent on
that someone to give you what you want or need. And when you do that,
they can give you what you want or need, or they can refuse to give
you what you want or need. When you depend on yourself to provide
what you need, you are in control of getting what you want or need.

So let me get this straight if your wife who has no extra cover, gets
sick (god forbid), YOU are paying for all of it? Don't think so. You
might control what you have but your selfishness sticks all of us with
higher rates. So your theory of anyone can walk in a hospital can get
treatment, while true, it costs the rest of us.
So you want to control your shit and stick us with the bill........DUH!!!

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW

Post by JRW

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectf
ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released
today. By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale
of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to
1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was a one off,
there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the same appalling
standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment
and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost
all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about the
dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel
treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS
nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of
the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two percent
of the whole they should be identified and struck off the Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following their
care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse
with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling
care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear to
all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail to
stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it
would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are the
most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It’s a sad
indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS are
subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment
in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by
more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College
of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in the NHS
could be undermined by the examples cited and it would affect morale
in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is completely
unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that
are contrary to the principles and ethics of the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this
area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement
powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases.
We will not hesitate to use these powers when necessary to bring
improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said
the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day
and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and
effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall
care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93
percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th
in the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to post
something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

The problem lies with everyone saying that they are not going to
pay for someone else, especially the poor. Well I hate to burst
any bubbles here, but you already pay for them and at an rate at
that surpasses any rate you'd pay in the future.
People are afraid of change, the unknown, and I appreciate that.
*
Read this report from the World Health Organization (WHO)
http://www.who.int/whr/2000/media_centre/press_release/en/index.html*
The figures are really something, we as Americans are short
changed in health care, especially if you are middle to lower income.
Now if you want the folks controlling the money to control your
health care, good luck. I wish you the best, really.
But don't put others at risk because you don't agree with the
system. Under the system you can still spend all your money and
BUY any additional coverage you want...lol
*If you are an "AVERAGE JOE" wake up and smell the roses, you are
being sold swampland by big business and folks here that don't
have a clue.
*
*SEEK out the facts for yourself*, and this is *NOT* the place to
do it!!!!!!! Google it...lol....and yes you should believe
everything FOX News tells you...ha ha...NOT!!!!
It is realy a simple issue. When your life is on the line, do you
want to depend on yourself to save your life, or do you want to
trust someone else to save your life. When you pay for the
service, you decide how important your life is. When someone else
pays the bill, they decide how important your life is.

I feel so very sad that you are so misinformed. Under a national health
care you do pay premiums, you pay the bill. There are always
co-payments, but they will not break your bank account. I am presently
in The Netherlands, I am enrolled in the health care system as required.
I pay a normal monthly payment. I choose my doctor, am referred to
specialist and have outstanding medicine support. Presently I have a
$150 deductible for medicine and then they pay for it all after that.
Now imagine if you have a terrible disease, the medicine costs alone
could break you, never mind doctor bills and hospital stays. Talk to
folks in the US who were insured and the insurance dropped them because
"they cost them too much".....Do YOU want to be in that position? I hope
not. And I also saw in another mail that your wife has NOT signed up for
existing programs, WHY NOT???? Your wife is going to increase others
costs when she gets sick (God forbid). With National Health care you
have to enroll and I can tell you, it works. The Netherlands is number
17 on the World Health Org list for care, out of 119 countries. The US
is 37.
I am NOT preaching that we should go to a European health care system,
but when you look on the list and see who gives better health care than
the US, we need to get our thinking caps on.
The Republicans with all their big mouths about what the Democrats are
attempting is failing on deaf ears. If they really carded for you, they
would have presented their "BIG HEALTH CARE PLAN" eight years ago. Now
if you like smoke blown in your face, vote Republican please. You'll get
eight more years of the same crap.
Frankly I'm sick of their rhetoric, their non performance and failure to
even field a decent candidate. They can do much better but they are too
busy bickering within and planting false misleading information.
If you are happy with them, I'll close and wish you luck. You and the
wife will need it.
Have a great day and please stay healthy.

Let me suggest it is a question of how much freedom you want. When you
depend on someone else for anything you need, you are dependent on that
someone to give you what you want or need. And when you do that, they
can give you what you want or need, or they can refuse to give you what
you want or need. When you depend on yourself to provide what you need,
you are in control of getting what you want or need.

So let me get this straight if your wife who has no extra cover, gets sick
(god forbid), YOU are paying for all of it? Don't think so. You might
control what you have but your selfishness sticks all of us with higher
rates. So your theory of anyone can walk in a hospital can get treatment,
while true, it costs the rest of us.
So you want to control your shit and stick us with the bill........DUH!!!

Yes, I would pay for it. But I am not going to pay for it, if I do not have
to pay for it. Besides, your response has nothing to do with what I said
about how much freedom you want.

[JRW]

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectf
ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale
of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to
1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was a one off,
there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the same appalling
standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment
and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost
all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about the
dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel
treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS
nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of
the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two percent
of the whole they should be identified and struck off the Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following their
care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse
with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling
care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear to
all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail to
stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it
would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are the
most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It’s a sad
indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS are
subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment
in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by
more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College
of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in the NHS
could be undermined by the examples cited and it would affect morale
in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is completely
unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that
are contrary to the principles and ethics of the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this
area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement
powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases.
We will not hesitate to use these powers when necessary to bring
improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said
the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day
and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and
effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall
care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in the
world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US citizens may
"God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to post
something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.
Health Care Rankings
<http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/2007/07/health-care-rankings.html>
Saturday, July 28, 2007
With our country in dire need of health care reform and the
implementation of a universal health care system there will be some
people spreading much misinformation in order to keep the system as
is. Those people are bought and paid for by the health insurance
industry and this includes many politicians. People who speak out
against universal health care are either lying or ignorant.
Below you'll find the most up to date world wide health care rankings
by the World Health Organization. Consider that every country on this
list except for the United States has a universal health care system.
Think of this list the next time you hear someone lying: Rudy Giuliani
Lies About Health Care
<http://www.thepresidentialcandidates.us/2007/07/rudy-giuliani-lies-about-health-care.html>.
1. France
2. Italy
3. San Marino
4. Andorra
5. Malta
6. Singapore
7. Spain
8. Oman
9. Austria
10. Japan
11. Norway
12. Portugal
13. Monaco
14. Greece
15. Iceland
16. Luxembourg
17. Netherlands
18. United Kingdom
19. Ireland
20. Switzerland
21. Belgium
22. Colombia
23. Sweden
24. Cyprus
25. Germany
26. Saudi Arabia
27. United Arab Emirates
28. Israel
29. Morocco
30. Canada
31. Finland
32. Australia
33. Chile
34. Denmark
35. Dominica
36. Costa Rica
37. USA
Also consider that the US spends by far the most money per person on
health care of any of these countries. Why are we getting so little
return on so much money spent? Because of the corrupt system we have
in place which benefits the very rich health insurance companies and
their investors but not the people of this country.

[George]

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglectf
ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the scale
of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust - where up to
1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was a one off,
there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the same appalling
standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the treatment
and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme across almost
all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about the
dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel
treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS
nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion of
the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two percent
of the whole they should be identified and struck off the Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following their
care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a nurse
with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the appalling
care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear to
all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail to
stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008 it
would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are the
most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It’s a sad
indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS are
subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite investment
in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses increasing by
more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal College
of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in the NHS
could be undermined by the examples cited and it would affect morale
in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is completely
unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave in ways that
are contrary to the principles and ethics of the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this
area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new enforcement
powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in extreme cases.
We will not hesitate to use these powers when necessary to bring
improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health said
the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the
picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day
and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and
effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall
care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in the
world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US citizens may
"God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to post
something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already?
you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the govt
bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

[!FisherKing!]

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec
tf ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the
scale of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust -
where up to 1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was
a one off, there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the
same appalling standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the
treatment and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme
across almost all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about
the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright
cruel treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands
of NHS nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion
of the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two
percent of the whole they should be identified and struck off the
Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following
their care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a
nurse with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the
appalling care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear
to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail
to stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008
it would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are
the most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It’s a sad
indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS
are subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite
investment in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses
increasing by more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal
College of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in
the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited and it would
affect morale in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is
completely unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave
in ways that are contrary to the principles and ethics of the
profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new
enforcement powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in
extreme cases. We will not hesitate to use these powers when
necessary to bring improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health
said the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply
unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every
day and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe
and effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their
overall care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to
post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already?
you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the
govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

Oh,it will get passed. The problem is that the Democrats are just
that...Democratic. Every opportunity will be given to the repuglicans to
sit down and discuss the issue in a reasonable manner. You can see where
that's gone. So now the repugs are looking more and more stupid with each
passing day as they spew out bullshit on "death panels" which don't
exist, that the British hate thier system and it's the worst on the
planet, that only the insurance companies know what's best for the
patient, blah, blah, blah. The first pass may not be 100% of what is
needed, but it will be a good base upon which to add as time passes.

[George]

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec
tf ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the
scale of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust -
where up to 1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was
a one off, there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the
same appalling standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the
treatment and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme
across almost all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about
the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright
cruel treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands
of NHS nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion
of the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two
percent of the whole they should be identified and struck off the
Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following
their care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a
nurse with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the
appalling care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said “Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear
to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail
to stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008
it would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are
the most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It’s a sad
indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS
are subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite
investment in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses
increasing by more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal
College of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in
the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited and it would
affect morale in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is
completely unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave
in ways that are contrary to the principles and ethics of the
profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in
this area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new
enforcement powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in
extreme cases. We will not hesitate to use these powers when
necessary to bring improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health
said the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply
unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every
day and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe
and effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their
overall care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to
post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already?
you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the
govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

Oh,it will get passed. The problem is that the Democrats are just
that...Democratic. Every opportunity will be given to the repuglicans to
sit down and discuss the issue in a reasonable manner. You can see where
that's gone. So now the repugs are looking more and more stupid with each
passing day as they spew out bullshit on "death panels" which don't
exist, that the British hate thier system and it's the worst on the
planet, that only the insurance companies know what's best for the
patient, blah, blah, blah. The first pass may not be 100% of what is
needed, but it will be a good base upon which to add as time passes.

then you can add the death panels next year before the 2010 ass whoopin.

[!FisherKing!]

Post by George

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-negl
ec tf ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care
in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released
today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care
in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released
today Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the
scale of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust -
where up to 1,200 people died through failings in urgent care -
was a one off, there are repeated examples they have uncovered of
the same appalling standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the
treatment and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme
across almost all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and
to enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:“For far too long now, the Patients Association has
been receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk
about the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes
downright cruel treatment their elderly relatives had experienced
at the hands of NHS nurses.
“I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession
of which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion
of the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two
percent of the whole they should be identified and struck off the
Register.”
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following
their care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a
nurse with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the
appalling care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said
“Whilst Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of
scale the PA knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there
could be found across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and
makes this clear to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford,
and they sadly fail to stand out from the others.
“These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to
2008 it would equate to over one million patients. Very often
these are the most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients.
It’s a sad indictment of the care they receive.”
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was
82 and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and
her condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85
and had to remain without food or water for several days as her
hip operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the
dossier to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in
the NHS are subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite
investment in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses
increasing by more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are
people, not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the
Royal College of Nursing, said he was concerned that public
confidence in the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited
and it would affect morale in hardworking staff.
He said: “The level of care described by these families is
completely unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave
in ways that are contrary to the principles and ethics of the
profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
“This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel
that their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we
are concerned that this might undermine the public’s confidence in
the world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: “It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
“Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also
know that there are problems.
“I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in this area.
“Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new
enforcement powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in
extreme cases. We will not hesitate to use these powers when
necessary to bring improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity
are kept at the heart of care.”
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health
said the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was “simply
unacceptable”.
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people
every day and the vast majority of patients experience good
quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality Commission's
recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients
rate their overall care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to
post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already?
you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the
govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

Oh,it will get passed. The problem is that the Democrats are just
that...Democratic. Every opportunity will be given to the repuglicans
to sit down and discuss the issue in a reasonable manner. You can
see where that's gone. So now the repugs are looking more and more
stupid with each passing day as they spew out bullshit on "death
panels" which don't exist, that the British hate thier system and
it's the worst on the planet, that only the insurance companies know
what's best for the patient, blah, blah, blah. The first pass may not
be 100% of what is needed, but it will be a good base upon which to
add as time passes.

then you can add the death panels next year before the 2010 ass whoopin.

Indeed, the repugs are going to get their asses whooped again in 2010.
What you guys don't seem to realize is that volume is not the same thing
as quantity when it comes to a vote talley. Three really loud guys at a
town hall meeting doesn't add up to one hundred serious voters who think
you guys are all off the rails and don't want you or your kind within a
half mile of any government machinery. Smart aleck remarks and puffed out
chests don't translate to the actual money and hard work that it takes to
win elections. All you have is noise and dimwitted morons posing as
"leaders" of a movement that doesn't hold a bit of water. How's that
Sarah Palin thing working out for you guys?

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-negl
ec tf ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care
in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released
today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care
in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released
today Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the
scale of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust -
where up to 1,200 people died through failings in urgent care -
was a one off, there are repeated examples they have uncovered of
the same appalling standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the
treatment and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme
across almost all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and
to enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:"For far too long now, the Patients Association has
been receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk
about the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes
downright cruel treatment their elderly relatives had experienced
at the hands of NHS nurses.
"I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession
of which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion
of the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two
percent of the whole they should be identified and struck off the
Register."
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following
their care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a
nurse with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the
appalling care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said
"Whilst Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of
scale the PA knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there
could be found across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and
makes this clear to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford,
and they sadly fail to stand out from the others.
"These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to
2008 it would equate to over one million patients. Very often
these are the most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients.
It's a sad indictment of the care they receive."
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was
82 and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and
her condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85
and had to remain without food or water for several days as her
hip operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the
dossier to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in
the NHS are subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite
investment in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses
increasing by more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are
people, not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the
Royal College of Nursing, said he was concerned that public
confidence in the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited
and it would affect morale in hardworking staff.
He said: "The level of care described by these families is
completely unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave
in ways that are contrary to the principles and ethics of the
profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
"This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel
that their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we
are concerned that this might undermine the public's confidence in
the world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: "It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
"Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also
know that there are problems.
"I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in
this area.
"Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new
enforcement powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in
extreme cases. We will not hesitate to use these powers when
necessary to bring improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity
are kept at the heart of care."
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health
said the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was "simply
unacceptable".
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people
every day and the vast majority of patients experience good
quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality Commission's
recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients
rate their overall care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent
of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to
post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already?
you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the
govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

Oh,it will get passed. The problem is that the Democrats are just
that...Democratic. Every opportunity will be given to the repuglicans
to sit down and discuss the issue in a reasonable manner. You can
see where that's gone. So now the repugs are looking more and more
stupid with each passing day as they spew out bullshit on "death
panels" which don't exist, that the British hate thier system and
it's the worst on the planet, that only the insurance companies know
what's best for the patient, blah, blah, blah. The first pass may not
be 100% of what is needed, but it will be a good base upon which to
add as time passes.

then you can add the death panels next year before the 2010 ass whoopin.

Indeed, the repugs are going to get their asses whooped again in 2010.
What you guys don't seem to realize is that volume is not the same thing
as quantity when it comes to a vote talley. Three really loud guys at a
town hall meeting doesn't add up to one hundred serious voters who think
you guys are all off the rails and don't want you or your kind within a
half mile of any government machinery. Smart aleck remarks and puffed out
chests don't translate to the actual money and hard work that it takes to
win elections. All you have is noise and dimwitted morons posing as
"leaders" of a movement that doesn't hold a bit of water. How's that
Sarah Palin thing working out for you guys?

And what are you going to say if you are wrong? Are you going to tell
everyone that you were wrong, or are you going to be a silent as a lamb, if
your prediction is wrong?

[JRW]

Post by Jerry Okamura
And what are you going to say if you are wrong? Are you going to tell
everyone that you were wrong, or are you going to be a silent as a
lamb, if your prediction is wrong?

Wrong...lol...we'll be as arrogant as you Republicans. Will YOU admit
when you are wrong. So far I've heard nothing but protectionism of GW
Bush, our greatest loser in office. You know, the guy that really ruined
America, but you all need a scapegoat, and since he's a blackman, a
legit target for you wankers..

So when you are wrong, slitter back into your hole, no apology needed.

Please make sure you vote for Sarah Palin.....please...ha ha

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by Jerry Okamura
And what are you going to say if you are wrong? Are you going to tell
everyone that you were wrong, or are you going to be a silent as a lamb,
if your prediction is wrong?

Wrong...lol...we'll be as arrogant as you Republicans. Will YOU admit when
you are wrong. So far I've heard nothing but protectionism of GW Bush, our
greatest loser in office. You know, the guy that really ruined America,
but you all need a scapegoat, and since he's a blackman, a legit target
for you wankers..

I have done that on numerous occassions. I said that Bush was wrong when he
increased the National Debt. I said that Bush's stimulus plan was the wrong
solution to the problem. I said Bush was wrong when he bailed out those big
companies.

So when you are wrong, slitter back into your hole, no apology needed.

I have nothing to apoligze for.

Please make sure you vote for Sarah Palin.....please...ha ha

And if Palin runs again, and she continues to impress me with her solutions
to the problems we face, I will be more than happy to vote for her. That
does not mean she will win, it only means she will get my one vote.

[JRW]

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura
And what are you going to say if you are wrong? Are you going to
tell everyone that you were wrong, or are you going to be a silent
as a lamb, if your prediction is wrong?

Wrong...lol...we'll be as arrogant as you Republicans. Will YOU admit
when you are wrong. So far I've heard nothing but protectionism of GW
Bush, our greatest loser in office. You know, the guy that really
ruined America, but you all need a scapegoat, and since he's a
blackman, a legit target for you wankers..

I have done that on numerous occassions. I said that Bush was wrong
when he increased the National Debt. I said that Bush's stimulus plan
was the wrong solution to the problem. I said Bush was wrong when he
bailed out those big companies.

Post by JRW
So when you are wrong, slitter back into your hole, no apology needed.

I have nothing to apoligze for.

Post by JRW
Please make sure you vote for Sarah Palin.....please...ha ha

And if Palin runs again, and she continues to impress me with her
solutions to the problems we face, I will be more than happy to vote
for her. That does not mean she will win, it only means she will get
my one vote.

Impress you, she's a quitter. Vote for her please and when she cries and
gets tired of the Presidency she'll quit again. The Alaskan folks are
pissed!
Palin was a token to get the female vote, everyone knows that. Why do
you think they played the soccer mom route etc.
What exactly has she done to impress anyone...lol
Wasted vote if you ask me. By all means vote for whomever you like, but
a wasted vote is just that.
I've voted on both sides of the fence and I can tell you the Republicans
have yet to show, that they can produce a good candidate to run. The
party is in terrible dishevel.

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura
And what are you going to say if you are wrong? Are you going to tell
everyone that you were wrong, or are you going to be a silent as a
lamb, if your prediction is wrong?

Wrong...lol...we'll be as arrogant as you Republicans. Will YOU admit
when you are wrong. So far I've heard nothing but protectionism of GW
Bush, our greatest loser in office. You know, the guy that really ruined
America, but you all need a scapegoat, and since he's a blackman, a
legit target for you wankers..

I have done that on numerous occassions. I said that Bush was wrong when
he increased the National Debt. I said that Bush's stimulus plan was the
wrong solution to the problem. I said Bush was wrong when he bailed out
those big companies.

Post by JRW
So when you are wrong, slitter back into your hole, no apology needed.

I have nothing to apoligze for.

Post by JRW
Please make sure you vote for Sarah Palin.....please...ha ha

And if Palin runs again, and she continues to impress me with her
solutions to the problems we face, I will be more than happy to vote for
her. That does not mean she will win, it only means she will get my one
vote.

Impress you, she's a quitter. Vote for her please and when she cries and
gets tired of the Presidency she'll quit again. The Alaskan folks are
pissed!

Perhaps. On the other hand, we know that Obama is a liar, a big time liar,
and has broken more promises that you have fingers. Which is worse?

[!FisherKing!]

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-ne
gl ec tf ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care
in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report
released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care
in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report
released today Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds
of thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often
with 'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright
cruel' treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the
scale of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust -
where up to 1,200 people died through failings in urgent care -
was a one off, there are repeated examples they have uncovered
of the same appalling standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the
treatment and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme
across almost all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission
to conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care
and to enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a
former nurse, said:"For far too long now, the Patients
Association has been receiving calls on our helpline from people
wanting to talk about the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning,
painful and sometimes downright cruel treatment their elderly
relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS nurses.
"I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my
profession of which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny
proportion of the nursing work force, but even if they are only
one or two percent of the whole they should be identified and
struck off the Register."
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following
their care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of
patients highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million
treated a year, even a small percentage means hundreds of
thousands have suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a
nurse with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the
appalling care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at
the bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said
"Whilst Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of
scale the PA knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there
could be found across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and
makes this clear to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford,
and they sadly fail to stand out from the others.
"These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients
that consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient
surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to
2008 it would equate to over one million patients. Very often
these are the most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill
patients. It's a sad indictment of the care they receive."
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it
with legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey,
was 82 and suffering with cancer but was left in her own
excrement and her condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85
and had to remain without food or water for several days as her
hip operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the
dossier to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients
in the NHS are subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite
investment in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline
nurses increasing by more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are
people, not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the
Royal College of Nursing, said he was concerned that public
confidence in the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited
and it would affect morale in hardworking staff.
He said: "The level of care described by these families is
completely unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who
behave in ways that are contrary to the principles and ethics of
the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
"This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel
that their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but
we are concerned that this might undermine the public's
confidence in the world-class care they can expect to receive
from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: "It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
"Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also
know that there are problems.
"I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game
in this area.
"Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new
enforcement powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure
in extreme cases. We will not hesitate to use these powers when
necessary to bring improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they
are ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and
dignity are kept at the heart of care."
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health
said the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was "simply
unacceptable".
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative
of the picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of
people every day and the vast majority of patients experience
good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93
percent of patients rate their overall care as good or
excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93
percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th
in the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of
US citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65,
75%? England looks better and better everytime a right winger
tries to post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something
already? you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and
academia and the govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up?
incompetence?

Oh,it will get passed. The problem is that the Democrats are just
that...Democratic. Every opportunity will be given to the
repuglicans to sit down and discuss the issue in a reasonable
manner. You can see where that's gone. So now the repugs are
looking more and more stupid with each passing day as they spew out
bullshit on "death panels" which don't exist, that the British hate
thier system and it's the worst on the planet, that only the
insurance companies know what's best for the patient, blah, blah,
blah. The first pass may not be 100% of what is needed, but it will
be a good base upon which to add as time passes.

then you can add the death panels next year before the 2010 ass whoopin.

Indeed, the repugs are going to get their asses whooped again in
2010. What you guys don't seem to realize is that volume is not the
same thing as quantity when it comes to a vote talley. Three really
loud guys at a town hall meeting doesn't add up to one hundred
serious voters who think you guys are all off the rails and don't
want you or your kind within a half mile of any government machinery.
Smart aleck remarks and puffed out chests don't translate to the
actual money and hard work that it takes to win elections. All you
have is noise and dimwitted morons posing as "leaders" of a movement
that doesn't hold a bit of water. How's that Sarah Palin thing
working out for you guys?

And what are you going to say if you are wrong? Are you going to tell
everyone that you were wrong, or are you going to be a silent as a
lamb, if your prediction is wrong?

My predictions are just that, predictions. I don't sample opinion, do
polls, or even campaign for anybody. I live in the most repuglican
district in the country. John Boner is my congressman. Mean Jean Schmidt
is right next door. But my old district right up the road, is now run by
Dennis Kucinich. Ohio now has Sherrod Brown, a wonderful Progressive as
Senator. Voinivich, a good solid republican is retiring and I hate to see
him go. Espcially after what he said about those piss ant southerners
who ruined the repub party. We kicked out that goofball Taft and elected
Ted Strickland as governer. Ohio has suffered miserablly under repuglican
leadership. Thank to people like Ken Blackwell who helped deliver Ohio
to the Bush camp in 2004, the whole country suffered. Geez, I wish
Blackwell would have gotten the repug party leadership instead of Steele.
Right now, there would be NO repuglican party now.
But, to answer your question, I may change my prediciton between now and
then. I don't use rose colored glasses to influence my decisions.
President Obamb has been in office less than ten months. The fight right
now is over health care. Something will be passed. Maybe not the full
and complete package that one would like to see, but it will be something
that is going in the right direction. Amendments can be added later when
the rhetoric dies down and the smoke clears. And when the
rightwingnutjobs get tired of yelling meaningless bullshit slogans. And
if I'm wrong in what I'm saying now, then I'll be wrong. It may be an
even larger victory for Democracy and President Obama.

[JRW]

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-ne
gl ec tf ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care
in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report
released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care
in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report
released today Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds
of thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often
with 'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright
cruel' treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the
scale of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust -
where up to 1,200 people died through failings in urgent care -
was a one off, there are repeated examples they have uncovered
of the same appalling standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the
treatment and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme
across almost all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission
to conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care
and to enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a
former nurse, said:"For far too long now, the Patients
Association has been receiving calls on our helpline from people
wanting to talk about the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning,
painful and sometimes downright cruel treatment their elderly
relatives had experienced at the hands of NHS nurses.
"I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my
profession of which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny
proportion of the nursing work force, but even if they are only
one or two percent of the whole they should be identified and
struck off the Register."
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following
their care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of
patients highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million
treated a year, even a small percentage means hundreds of
thousands have suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a
nurse with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the
appalling care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at
the bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said
"Whilst Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of
scale the PA knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there
could be found across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and
makes this clear to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford,
and they sadly fail to stand out from the others.
"These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients
that consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient
surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to
2008 it would equate to over one million patients. Very often
these are the most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill
patients. It's a sad indictment of the care they receive."
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it
with legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey,
was 82 and suffering with cancer but was left in her own
excrement and her condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85
and had to remain without food or water for several days as her
hip operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the
dossier to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients
in the NHS are subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite
investment in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline
nurses increasing by more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are
people, not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the
Royal College of Nursing, said he was concerned that public
confidence in the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited
and it would affect morale in hardworking staff.
He said: "The level of care described by these families is
completely unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who
behave in ways that are contrary to the principles and ethics of
the profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
"This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel
that their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but
we are concerned that this might undermine the public's
confidence in the world-class care they can expect to receive
from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: "It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
"Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also
know that there are problems.
"I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game
in this area.
"Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new
enforcement powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure
in extreme cases. We will not hesitate to use these powers when
necessary to bring improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they
are ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and
dignity are kept at the heart of care."
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health
said the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was "simply
unacceptable".
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative
of the picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of
people every day and the vast majority of patients experience
good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93
percent of patients rate their overall care as good or
excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93
percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th
in the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of
US citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65,
75%? England looks better and better everytime a right winger
tries to post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something
already? you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and
academia and the govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up?
incompetence?

Oh,it will get passed. The problem is that the Democrats are just
that...Democratic. Every opportunity will be given to the
repuglicans to sit down and discuss the issue in a reasonable
manner. You can see where that's gone. So now the repugs are
looking more and more stupid with each passing day as they spew out
bullshit on "death panels" which don't exist, that the British hate
thier system and it's the worst on the planet, that only the
insurance companies know what's best for the patient, blah, blah,
blah. The first pass may not be 100% of what is needed, but it will
be a good base upon which to add as time passes.

then you can add the death panels next year before the 2010 ass whoopin.

Indeed, the repugs are going to get their asses whooped again in
2010. What you guys don't seem to realize is that volume is not the
same thing as quantity when it comes to a vote talley. Three really
loud guys at a town hall meeting doesn't add up to one hundred
serious voters who think you guys are all off the rails and don't
want you or your kind within a half mile of any government machinery.
Smart aleck remarks and puffed out chests don't translate to the
actual money and hard work that it takes to win elections. All you
have is noise and dimwitted morons posing as "leaders" of a movement
that doesn't hold a bit of water. How's that Sarah Palin thing
working out for you guys?

And what are you going to say if you are wrong? Are you going to tell
everyone that you were wrong, or are you going to be a silent as a
lamb, if your prediction is wrong?

My predictions are just that, predictions. I don't sample opinion, do
polls, or even campaign for anybody. I live in the most repuglican
district in the country. John Boner is my congressman. Mean Jean Schmidt
is right next door. But my old district right up the road, is now run by
Dennis Kucinich. Ohio now has Sherrod Brown, a wonderful Progressive as
Senator. Voinivich, a good solid republican is retiring and I hate to see
him go. Espcially after what he said about those piss ant southerners
who ruined the repub party. We kicked out that goofball Taft and elected
Ted Strickland as governer. Ohio has suffered miserablly under repuglican
leadership. Thank to people like Ken Blackwell who helped deliver Ohio
to the Bush camp in 2004, the whole country suffered. Geez, I wish
Blackwell would have gotten the repug party leadership instead of Steele.
Right now, there would be NO repuglican party now.
But, to answer your question, I may change my prediciton between now and
then. I don't use rose colored glasses to influence my decisions.
President Obamb has been in office less than ten months. The fight right
now is over health care. Something will be passed. Maybe not the full
and complete package that one would like to see, but it will be something
that is going in the right direction. Amendments can be added later when
the rhetoric dies down and the smoke clears. And when the
rightwingnutjobs get tired of yelling meaningless bullshit slogans. And
if I'm wrong in what I'm saying now, then I'll be wrong. It may be an
even larger victory for Democracy and President Obama.

Yes, and what did BUSH do in his first 10
months.........ahhh,,,,,ahhhhh, aahhhhhh..ummm...ummm..ummm..nuclaar...
Obama deserves a chance to clean up the last 8 years of disastrous
Republican rule.
I'm not saying that Obama might be the right answer, but I say he
deserves the chance.
The Republicans are crying and crying about health care and now their
representatives say they have a better plan. Where was this "plan" in
the BUSH years. I find it amazing that "they" now have a plan and only
they have the right answers for the American people. They had their
chance for 8 years and failed to produce anything for us Americans in
regards to health care.
What makes you Republicans think you have the answers NOW? I you that
near/far sighted to see that they are just playing you? If I was a
Republican, I'd be mad and asking those questions, first, before
spouting off about something they "could" have realized! So go on, ask
them, get them to publish the answer, WHY!!! But I think you are either
afraid to ask or don't want to know the reality of it.

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by !FisherKing!

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec
tf ul-care-of-one-million-NHS-patients-exposed.html
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
By Rebecca Smith, Medical Editor
Published: 12:01AM BST 27 Aug 2009
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in
hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today
Photo: CLARE KENDALL
In the last six years, the Patients Association claims hundreds of
thousands have suffered from poor standards of nursing, often with
'neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright cruel'
treatment.
The Patients Association said the dossier proves that while the
scale of the scandal at Mid-Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust -
where up to 1,200 people died through failings in urgent care - was
a one off, there are repeated examples they have uncovered of the
same appalling standards throughout the NHS.
While the criticisms cover all aspects of hospital care, the
treatment and attitude of nurses stands out as a repeated theme
across almost all of the cases.
They have called on Government and the Care Quality Commission to
conduct an urgent review of standards of basic hospital care and to
enforce stricter supervision and regulation.
Claire Rayner, President of the Patients Association and a former
nurse, said:"For far too long now, the Patients Association has been
receiving calls on our helpline from people wanting to talk about
the dreadful, neglectful, demeaning, painful and sometimes downright
cruel treatment their elderly relatives had experienced at the hands
of NHS nurses.
"I am sickened by what has happened to some part of my profession of
which I was so proud.
"These bad, cruel nurses may be - probably are - a tiny proportion
of the nursing work force, but even if they are only one or two
percent of the whole they should be identified and struck off the
Register."
The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from
hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following
their care in NHS hospitals.
They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients
highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a
year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have
suffered.
Ms Rayner said it was by "sad coincidence" that she trained as a
nurse with one of the patients who had "suffered so much".
She went on: "I know that she, like me, was horrified by the
appalling care she had before she died.
"We both came from a generation of nurses who were trained at the
bedside and in whom the core values of nursing were deeply
inculcated."
Katherine Murphy, Director of the Patients Association, said "Whilst
Mid Staffordshire may have been an anomaly in terms of scale the PA
knew the kinds of appalling treatment given there could be found
across the NHS. This report removes any doubt and makes this clear
to all. Two of the accounts come from Stafford, and they sadly fail
to stand out from the others.
"These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that
consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys).
"If this was extrapolated to the whole of the NHS from 2002 to 2008
it would equate to over one million patients. Very often these are
the most vulnerable elderly and terminally ill patients. It's a sad
indictment of the care they receive."
The Patients Association said one hospital had threatened it with
legal action if it chose to publish the material.
Pamela Goddard, a piano teacher from Bletchingley, in Surrey, was 82
and suffering with cancer but was left in her own excrement and her
condition deteriorated due to her bed sores.
Florence Weston, from Sedgley in the West Midlands, died aged 85 and
had to remain without food or water for several days as her hip
operation was repeatedly cancelled. The charity released the dossier
to highlight the poor care which a minority of patients in the NHS
are subjected to.
Ms Murphy said the numbers rating care as poor came despite
investment in the NHS doubling and the number of frontline nurses
increasing by more than a quarter since 1996.
The personal stories were revealed to prevent their cases being
ignored as only representing a small portion of patients.
The report said: "These are patients, not numbers. These are people,
not statistics." Dr Peter Carter, Chief Executive of the Royal
College of Nursing, said he was concerned that public confidence in
the NHS could be undermined by the examples cited and it would
affect morale in hardworking staff.
He said: "The level of care described by these families is
completely unacceptable, and we will not condone nurses who behave
in ways that are contrary to the principles and ethics of the
profession.
"However we believe that the vast majority of nurses are decent,
highly skilled individuals.
"This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that
their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are
concerned that this might undermine the public's confidence in the
world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS."
Barbara Young, Chairman of the Care Quality Commission, the
super-regulator, said: "It is absolutely right to highlight that
standards of hospital care can vary from very good to poor.
"Many people are happy with the care they receive, but we also know
that there are problems.
"I am in no doubt that many hospitals need to raise their game in
this area.
"Where NHS trusts fail to meet the mark, we have tough new
enforcement powers, ranging from warnings and fines to closure in
extreme cases. We will not hesitate to use these powers when
necessary to bring improvement.
"We will be asking NHS trusts and primary care trusts how they are
ensuring that the needs of patients and their safety and dignity are
kept at the heart of care."
Chris Beasley, Chief Nursing Officer at the Department of Health
said the care in the cases highlighted by the PA was "simply
unacceptable".
She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of
the picture across the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every
day and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe
and effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient
experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their
overall care as good or excellent."
If this is true, may God help the other 7%....AAC

She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across
the NHS. The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of
patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality
Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate
their overall care as good or excellent."
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to
post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already?
you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the
govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

Oh,it will get passed. The problem is that the Democrats are just
that...Democratic. Every opportunity will be given to the repuglicans to
sit down and discuss the issue in a reasonable manner. You can see where
that's gone. So now the repugs are looking more and more stupid with each
passing day as they spew out bullshit on "death panels" which don't
exist, that the British hate thier system and it's the worst on the
planet, that only the insurance companies know what's best for the
patient, blah, blah, blah. The first pass may not be 100% of what is
needed, but it will be a good base upon which to add as time passes.

When someone else pays for what you need, they can decide if they will "save
your life" or they can decide not to "save your life". If you pay for what
you need, you decide how important your life is.

[JRW]

Post by Jerry Okamura
When someone else pays for what you need, they can decide if they will
"save your life" or they can decide not to "save your life". If you
pay for what you need, you decide how important your life is.

Jerry,

Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business and
using pawns like you to "spread the word" (even if not true).
By the way you are talking I can see you believe everything that spouts
from newsgroups.
Think for yourself for a change, squawk for yourself and not for some
PARTY!!!!!

I think the Republican and Democrats need new blood and not scum suckers
that are bleeding our feeling dry.

Are you ready to stand up against both parties?? (More than likely not)

But if you are, the first stand is to get rid of Palin and find a
candidate worthy of the position of President.

Obama has just begun, picking up the ruins of the Bush society, he needs
a chance, like any other President. I'll reserve judgment on him for
now, however when voting time comes around again, THAT'S the time and
only the time to have the big "SAY"....VOTE.

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura
When someone else pays for what you need, they can decide if they will
"save your life" or they can decide not to "save your life". If you pay
for what you need, you decide how important your life is.

Jerry,
Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business and using
pawns like you to "spread the word" (even if not true).
By the way you are talking I can see you believe everything that spouts
from newsgroups.
Think for yourself for a change, squawk for yourself and not for some
PARTY!!!!!

It is not a big business thing or a republican thing, it is the simple fact.
Can you refute what I said? Or are you just trying to change the subject
because you cannot refute what I said. And I don't know of any of our
elected republicans who is making the argument I am making, can you? On the
contrary, they are saying the solution is a health insurance plan that
allows private companies to complete more effectively with each other.
Well, health insuraance whether it is private or public is basically the
same thing. When you buy health insurance, you are also dependent on
someone else to pay for what you want or need, and the same argument
applies....they can give you what you want or need, or they can refuse to
give you what you want or need. The only difference between a private
company selling you insurance is that you have a chance to get the service
you paid for, because when they issue that insurance, you receive a contract
of what that insurance will cover and what it will not cover in excruciating
detail. On the other hand, when the government sells you that insurance,
you will not get a written contract, just "promises" os what they will pay
for, and they will never tell you what they will not pay for.

Post by JRW
I think the Republican and Democrats need new blood and not scum suckers
that are bleeding our feeling dry.
Are you ready to stand up against both parties?? (More than likely not)

I did that once before when Perot was running. What I learned from that
experience is even if Perot was successful, Congress would still be
controlled by one of the two major parties. So, he can only change things
"if" the majority in Congress is willing to play along. And what is
happening in Washington today, shows you what the odds are of that
happening.

Post by JRW
But if you are, the first stand is to get rid of Palin and find a
candidate worthy of the position of Presiden

I would argue that Palin is exactly what you are arguing about, that is if
you are telling the truth about what needs to be done. She takes positions
that the two parties are not taking.

Post by JRW
Obama has just begun, picking up the ruins of the Bush society, he needs a
chance, like any other President. I'll reserve judgment on him for now,
however when voting time comes around again, THAT'S the time and only the
time to have the big "SAY"....VOTE.

Nope. I already see what he has done. He just threw a whole lot of money
at our economic woes, and so far we have little to show for it, other than
the fact that is increased our National Debt. He supports cap and trade,
which is not going to prevent Global Warming from occurring, because is it
working the wrong end of the problem, and even if it was working the right
end of the problem, it won't accomplish what they are tyring to accomplish
when countries like China and India are not about to ask their citizens to
make any significant sacrifices. He says out of one side of his mouth that
we need to be more energy independent, which is partially true, but then he
refuses to allow drilling for oil in our own country where we know there is
oil and instead helps those "evil oil companies" with loans so they can
explore for oil in Brazil. He refuses to push for more nuclear power
plants, which would reduce our dependence on oil and at the same time reduce
greenhouse gases. He told us that we can save money by spending more money
that would solve the healthcare problem. Anyone who belives that has got
rocks in their head. He says the solution to our health care problem is to
expand the people who have health insurance, when the problem is exactly
because we have too many people who do not have to make the rationing
decision, which is the reason we have a health care problem.

[JRW]

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura
When someone else pays for what you need, they can decide if they
will "save your life" or they can decide not to "save your life".
If you pay for what you need, you decide how important your life is.

Jerry,
Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business and
using pawns like you to "spread the word" (even if not true).
By the way you are talking I can see you believe everything that
spouts from newsgroups.
Think for yourself for a change, squawk for yourself and not for some
PARTY!!!!!

It is not a big business thing or a republican thing, it is the simple
fact. Can you refute what I said? Or are you just trying to change
the subject because you cannot refute what I said. And I don't know
of any of our elected republicans who is making the argument I am
making, can you? On the contrary, they are saying the solution is a
health insurance plan that allows private companies to complete more
effectively with each other. Well, health insuraance whether it is
private or public is basically the same thing. When you buy health
insurance, you are also dependent on someone else to pay for what you
want or need, and the same argument applies....they can give you what
you want or need, or they can refuse to give you what you want or
need. The only difference between a private company selling you
insurance is that you have a chance to get the service you paid for,
because when they issue that insurance, you receive a contract of what
that insurance will cover and what it will not cover in excruciating
detail. On the other hand, when the government sells you that
insurance, you will not get a written contract, just "promises" os
what they will pay for, and they will never tell you what they will
not pay for.

Post by JRW
I think the Republican and Democrats need new blood and not scum
suckers that are bleeding our feeling dry.
Are you ready to stand up against both parties?? (More than likely not)

I did that once before when Perot was running. What I learned from
that experience is even if Perot was successful, Congress would still
be controlled by one of the two major parties. So, he can only change
things "if" the majority in Congress is willing to play along. And
what is happening in Washington today, shows you what the odds are of
that happening.

Yes Ross Perot. But again he had big money and trying to buy into the
system. What is wrong with the system it is driven purely by money. Ask
Mitt Romney, he's got plenty of money from the wife. :-)
But saying that, if Perot was elected it would have been an extremely
good wake-up call for both parties. And if they stopped the progress of
America, don't you think then the voters would get rid of them?
Remember, we put them there, we can pull or punch their ticket.

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW
But if you are, the first stand is to get rid of Palin and find a
candidate worthy of the position of Presiden

I would argue that Palin is exactly what you are arguing about, that
is if you are telling the truth about what needs to be done. She
takes positions that the two parties are not taking.

Palin is self serving Palin, you saw the change before your eyes as she
got more and more power. I think it was at that point McCain realized
that he made a BIG mistake in choosing her as a running mate. She was
selected for the female vote, better believe it. Now look at her,
quitting her job (elected at that) and basically giving the finger to
her voters. I was truly amazed at that stunt. And one more reason I
would never consider her for any office. If you like a nonsense talker
vote for her.

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW
Obama has just begun, picking up the ruins of the Bush society, he
needs a chance, like any other President. I'll reserve judgment on
him for now, however when voting time comes around again, THAT'S the
time and only the time to have the big "SAY"....VOTE.

Nope. I already see what he has done. He just threw a whole lot of
money at our economic woes, and so far we have little to show for it,
other than the fact that is increased our National Debt. He supports
cap and trade, which is not going to prevent Global Warming from
occurring, because is it working the wrong end of the problem, and
even if it was working the right end of the problem, it won't
accomplish what they are tyring to accomplish when countries like
China and India are not about to ask their citizens to make any
significant sacrifices. He says out of one side of his mouth that we
need to be more energy independent, which is partially true, but then
he refuses to allow drilling for oil in our own country where we know
there is oil and instead helps those "evil oil companies" with loans
so they can explore for oil in Brazil. He refuses to push for more
nuclear power plants, which would reduce our dependence on oil and at
the same time reduce greenhouse gases. He told us that we can save
money by spending more money that would solve the healthcare problem.
Anyone who belives that has got rocks in their head. He says the
solution to our health care problem is to expand the people who have
health insurance, when the problem is exactly because we have too many
people who do not have to make the rationing decision, which is the
reason we have a health care problem.

I'll keep my rocks. Thank you. Read your own stuff, everything
negative...ha ha
Nuclear might solve greenhouse gasses, what are you going to do with the
waste? Oh you didn't think about that......
You talking about drilling in pristine Alaska.......never!!! Can we
drill in your backyard tomorrow?
You go on and on about this rationing. Not going to happen. The problem
is that folks don't sign-up for what they are suppose to sigh up for and
stick us with the bill. You know anyone in that catagory. Oh oh sorry,
rationing......too cheap is more like it!

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura
When someone else pays for what you need, they can decide if they will
"save your life" or they can decide not to "save your life". If you
pay for what you need, you decide how important your life is.

Jerry,
Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business and
using pawns like you to "spread the word" (even if not true).
By the way you are talking I can see you believe everything that spouts
from newsgroups.
Think for yourself for a change, squawk for yourself and not for some
PARTY!!!!!

It is not a big business thing or a republican thing, it is the simple
fact. Can you refute what I said? Or are you just trying to change the
subject because you cannot refute what I said. And I don't know of any
of our elected republicans who is making the argument I am making, can
you? On the contrary, they are saying the solution is a health insurance
plan that allows private companies to complete more effectively with each
other. Well, health insuraance whether it is private or public is
basically the same thing. When you buy health insurance, you are also
dependent on someone else to pay for what you want or need, and the same
argument applies....they can give you what you want or need, or they can
refuse to give you what you want or need. The only difference between a
private company selling you insurance is that you have a chance to get
the service you paid for, because when they issue that insurance, you
receive a contract of what that insurance will cover and what it will not
cover in excruciating detail. On the other hand, when the government
sells you that insurance, you will not get a written contract, just
"promises" os what they will pay for, and they will never tell you what
they will not pay for.

Post by JRW
I think the Republican and Democrats need new blood and not scum suckers
that are bleeding our feeling dry.
Are you ready to stand up against both parties?? (More than likely not)

I did that once before when Perot was running. What I learned from that
experience is even if Perot was successful, Congress would still be
controlled by one of the two major parties. So, he can only change
things "if" the majority in Congress is willing to play along. And what
is happening in Washington today, shows you what the odds are of that
happening.

Yes Ross Perot. But again he had big money and trying to buy into the
system. What is wrong with the system it is driven purely by money. Ask
Mitt Romney, he's got plenty of money from the wife. :-)

Another lie? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitt_Romney

Post by JRW
But saying that, if Perot was elected it would have been an extremely good
wake-up call for both parties. And if they stopped the progress of
America, don't you think then the voters would get rid of them? Remember,
we put them there, we can pull or punch their ticket.

That was the general idea behind why I voted for the guy.

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW
But if you are, the first stand is to get rid of Palin and find a
candidate worthy of the position of Presiden

I would argue that Palin is exactly what you are arguing about, that is
if you are telling the truth about what needs to be done. She takes
positions that the two parties are not taking.

Palin is self serving Palin, you saw the change before your eyes as she
got more and more power. I think it was at that point McCain realized that
he made a BIG mistake in choosing her as a running mate. She was selected
for the female vote, better believe it. Now look at her, quitting her job
(elected at that) and basically giving the finger to her voters. I was
truly amazed at that stunt. And one more reason I would never consider her
for any office. If you like a nonsense talker vote for her.

None of us know in advance what kind of President anyone will be once they
become President. We vote for a candidate because "we think" we know, when
we really do not know. Many conservatives who voted for George Bush thought
they backed the wrong horse. Many people who voted for Obama on the basis
of wanting change, don't like the change he was really talking about.
Running on a platform of change without definint exactly what change you are
talking about, is a "stunt" in itself.

Post by JRW

Post by Jerry Okamura

Post by JRW
Obama has just begun, picking up the ruins of the Bush society, he needs
a chance, like any other President. I'll reserve judgment on him for
now, however when voting time comes around again, THAT'S the time and
only the time to have the big "SAY"....VOTE.

Nope. I already see what he has done. He just threw a whole lot of
money at our economic woes, and so far we have little to show for it,
other than the fact that is increased our National Debt. He supports cap
and trade, which is not going to prevent Global Warming from occurring,
because is it working the wrong end of the problem, and even if it was
working the right end of the problem, it won't accomplish what they are
tyring to accomplish when countries like China and India are not about to
ask their citizens to make any significant sacrifices. He says out of
one side of his mouth that we need to be more energy independent, which
is partially true, but then he refuses to allow drilling for oil in our
own country where we know there is oil and instead helps those "evil oil
companies" with loans so they can explore for oil in Brazil. He refuses
to push for more nuclear power plants, which would reduce our dependence
on oil and at the same time reduce greenhouse gases. He told us that we
can save money by spending more money that would solve the healthcare
problem. Anyone who belives that has got rocks in their head. He says
the solution to our health care problem is to expand the people who have
health insurance, when the problem is exactly because we have too many
people who do not have to make the rationing decision, which is the
reason we have a health care problem.

I'll keep my rocks. Thank you. Read your own stuff, everything
negative...ha ha

What has that got to do with what I said. What did I say that is not the
truth?

Post by JRW
Nuclear might solve greenhouse gasses, what are you going to do with the
waste?

Do you want to prevent global warming or don't you? Everything that has to
be done to prevent the event from happening will have some unwanted
consequences.

Oh you didn't think about that......

Post by JRW
You talking about drilling in pristine Alaska.......never!!! Can we drill
in your backyard tomorrow?

I would have no trouble if they wanted to drill in my backyard tomorrow.
That is one of our problems, we tell the government to solve a problem, but
when they do try to solve the problem, we say do it in someone elses
backyard, not in our backyard. There is a worl for that....SELFISHNESS....

Post by JRW
You go on and on about this rationing. Not going to happen. The problem is
that folks don't sign-up for what they are suppose to sigh up for and
stick us with the bill. You know anyone in that catagory. Oh oh sorry,
rationing......too cheap is more like it!

Ignorance is bliss. There is always rationing. When the government does
not pay the people who provide the medical services they money they want for
the services they performed, that is an act of rationing.

[Anonymous Infidel]

Post by JRW
Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business

What the fuck are you talking about? Hell, big pharma, AARP, etc are
backing Corporate Welfare Obama. They are buying adds for him. They
are paying people to go to the town halls. They are completely backing
him. [I wish you libs would can this bs pretense that you're fighting
the establishment...You are the establishment]

[JRW]

Post by Anonymous Infidel

Post by JRW
Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business

What the fuck are you talking about? Hell, big pharma, AARP, etc are
backing Corporate Welfare Obama. They are buying adds for him. They
are paying people to go to the town halls. They are completely backing
him. [I wish you libs would can this bs pretense that you're fighting
the establishment...You are the establishment]

Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business!
And what about the rest.......

I've voted on both sides of the fence. But this time I refused to vote for Sarah<soccermom> Palin. God, if the President (McCain) died, perish the thought of that. Republicans show no forethought in selection of candidates, nor did it seem to really interest them with all the infighting. Fire all of them, start new, maybe then and only then they can field someone I'd vote for.

I love how you label people, Republicans are good at sticking labels on folks, like libs etc...lol
I served 26 years in the Armed Forces to have my say...and you?

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by JRW

Post by Anonymous Infidel

Post by JRW
Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business

What the fuck are you talking about? Hell, big pharma, AARP, etc are
backing Corporate Welfare Obama. They are buying adds for him. They
are paying people to go to the town halls. They are completely backing
him. [I wish you libs would can this bs pretense that you're fighting
the establishment...You are the establishment]

Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business!
And what about the rest.......
I've voted on both sides of the fence. But this time I refused to vote for
Sarah<soccermom> Palin. God, if the President (McCain) died, perish the
thought of that. Republicans show no forethought in selection of
candidates, nor did it seem to really interest them with all the
infighting. Fire all of them, start new, maybe then and only then they can
field someone I'd vote for.
I love how you label people, Republicans are good at sticking labels on
folks, like libs etc...lol
I served 26 years in the Armed Forces to have my say...and you?

In other words, you have no principals on which you believe in?

[Anonymous Infidel]

Post by JRW

Post by Anonymous Infidel

Post by JRW
Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business

What the fuck are you talking about? Hell, big pharma, AARP, etc are
backing Corporate Welfare Obama. They are buying adds for him. They
are paying people to go to the town halls. They are completely backing
him. [I wish you libs would can this bs pretense that you're fighting
the establishment...You are the establishment]

Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business!
And what about the rest.......

God forbid you morons actually look at the news before you come onto a
newsgroup.
http://tinyurl.com/m6jzn5

Post by JRW
I've voted on both sides of the fence.

Total bs. You morons only say this shit because you're ashamed of the
corrupt inept democratic party.
<snip obamoron trying to do the impossible and justify his vote for
his messiah>

Post by JRW
I love how you label people,

If the shoe fits.

Post by JRW
Republicans are good at sticking labels on folks, like libs etc...lol

It appears you are too. You fucking moron.

Post by JRW
I served 26 years in the Armed Forces to have my say...

So, pretending this is true, you support the party that calls our
troops terrorist...What does that say about you?

Post by JRW
and you?

Why is that germane to this conversation, hunh stupid?

[Anonymous Infidel]

Post by Anonymous Infidel

Post by JRW

Post by Anonymous Infidel

Post by JRW
Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business

What the fuck are you talking about? Hell, big pharma, AARP, etc are
backing Corporate Welfare Obama. They are buying adds for him. They
are paying people to go to the town halls. They are completely backing
him. [I wish you libs would can this bs pretense that you're fighting
the establishment...You are the establishment]

Keep believing that Republican propaganda driven by big business!
And what about the rest.......

God forbid you morons actually look at the news before you come onto a
newsgroup.
http://tinyurl.com/m6jzn5

Are you a broken record. Is your Moron button stuck?  

You're clearly a fucking moron. I have to call it like it is.
<snip moron babbling on>
Obama, your messiah, the establishment, is a corporate tool. [So
again, feel free to can all that bs about fighting the power, power to
the people, etc. It's all bs]

[Strabo]

<snipped>

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to post
something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already? you
have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the govt
bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

No. Usurpation.

Many members of Congress have conspired to allow millions of illegal
aliens into the US where they have overwhelmed health care and social
services to the point of shutting down hospitals while Congress ignores
its job to clean up the fraud and corruption in the medical industry.

And now Obama-Soetoro and Congress nationalize key manufacturing and
play suicidal games with the economy and then promote an expansion of
government into private health care.

Both political parties act as one and ignore the demands and
pleadings of citizens. The offending politicians can't be voted out
of office and rigged elections have been noted.

There seems to be a concerted effort by government to crash the American
system from within.

No matter. We'll work it out.

[JRW]

Post by Strabo
<snipped>

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to
post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already?
you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the
govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

No. Usurpation.
Many members of Congress have conspired to allow millions of illegal
aliens into the US where they have overwhelmed health care and social
services to the point of shutting down hospitals while Congress ignores
its job to clean up the fraud and corruption in the medical industry.
And now Obama-Soetoro and Congress nationalize key manufacturing and
play suicidal games with the economy and then promote an expansion of
government into private health care.
Both political parties act as one and ignore the demands and
pleadings of citizens. The offending politicians can't be voted out
of office and rigged elections have been noted.
There seems to be a concerted effort by government to crash the American
system from within.
No matter. We'll work it out.

Oh my!!! rigged elections...lol
in the US...lol
Never <BG>

[JRW]

Post by Strabo
<snipped>

Post by George

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
Now let's see, England's health care system is rated around 17th in
the world, while the US is rated 38th. So what percentage of US
citizens may "God" have to help with our low ranking. 50% 65, 75%?
England looks better and better everytime a right winger tries to
post something derogatory about the NHS.
You loose again.

then y won't you dums get off your duffs and pass something already?
you have all 3 branches of govt and the media and academia and the
govt bureaucracy, what is the hold up? incompetence?

No. Usurpation.
Many members of Congress have conspired to allow millions of illegal
aliens into the US where they have overwhelmed health care and social
services to the point of shutting down hospitals while Congress ignores
its job to clean up the fraud and corruption in the medical industry.
And now Obama-Soetoro and Congress nationalize key manufacturing and
play suicidal games with the economy and then promote an expansion of
government into private health care.
Both political parties act as one and ignore the demands and
pleadings of citizens. The offending politicians can't be voted out
of office and rigged elections have been noted.
There seems to be a concerted effort by government to crash the American
system from within.
No matter. We'll work it out.

Illegal aliens are a problem in Europe also, the US certainly is not
alone with this problem.

Fraud and corruption has been around for eons. National health care sets
limits (costs) for items provided to the system, thus elimination of
overcharging on invoices.
A step in the right direction.
Doctors are provided with a decent salary and still are free to have a
private practice.
It seems in the last thirty years money has played an important part in
people becoming health care providers and the patient was left to the
wayside.

Wages everywhere in the US are out of control and these bonus' are
ridiculous and even paid when the person fails. SAD!!
Just look at what sports figures are paid..lol You can't even go tho
the ballpark with your kids now for less than $100, super sad.
GREED GREED GREED, where does it stop?

[Bert Byfield]

Post by Strabo
Many members of Congress have conspired to allow millions of
illegal aliens into the US where they have overwhelmed health care
and social services to the point of shutting down hospitals while
Congress ignores its job to clean up the fraud and corruption in
the medical industry.

I suppose you blame ALL your problems on immigrants.

Post by Strabo
And now Obama-Soetoro and Congress nationalize key manufacturing
and play suicidal games with the economy and then promote an
expansion of government into private health care.

The immigrants must be forcing them to do it.

Post by Strabo
Both political parties act as one and ignore the demands and
pleadings of citizens. The offending politicians can't be voted
out of office and rigged elections have been noted.

No matter what has been noted, our elections are fair and
representative.

Post by Strabo
There seems to be a concerted effort by government to crash the
American system from within.

"Seems to be" are your weasel words for "is not."

Post by Strabo
No matter. We'll work it out.

We? You and your nerdy buddy? Go back to school, kids.

[lorad]

For story and readers' comments:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec...
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today.

So called 'appalling care' - is still better than NO CARE for fifty
million uninsured US citizens.

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
For story and readers'
comments:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec...
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today.

So called 'appalling care' - is still better than NO CARE for fifty
million uninsured US citizens.

First of all, every one in America who walks in a hospital emergency room
will get their needs met, even illegals who are in this country, so your
statement is a lie. Second, of the 50 million uninsured, are those who
could have insurance, if they would just take one action, join the
government programs that they are qualified for. My wife is technically
uninusred even though she is over 65, because she has never enrolled with
any healthcare provider. In the group of people who you listed are those
who are rich and don't need health insurance, they can well afford to pay
for their own health insurance. Also in this group are those who are career
criminals, do you want them to have health insurance? Do you want to
"reward" them for being criminals. Also in this group are those who work
the economic underground. What percentage of the uninsured are those under
18? Do they really need health insurance? And even if you forced everyone
to buy health insurance, can you guarantee that they will continue paying
for the health insurance? Of course you cannot. And since medical
inflation is higher than the consumer price index, that means the cost of
the insurance will rise to keep up with medical inflation wouldn't it? As
the cost of that insurance rises, how many that you "forced" to buy health
insurance will keep paying for their helath insurance?

[[e-mail]]

Post by lorad

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
For story and readers'
comments:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec...
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today.

So called 'appalling care' - is still better than NO CARE for fifty
million uninsured US citizens.
First of all, every one in America who walks in a hospital emergency room
will get their needs met,

bullshit, they may get some immediate care, no follow ups, no
continuing care or medications

why don't all you self serving, selfish, greedy, self centered japs and
hillbillies shut the hell up and go fuck yourselves,

you have no voice, you assholes never contributed to anything, you just took
all you could get for yourselves
while better men and women than you risked their lives for your freedom to
be complete, total, and utter
low down, inhumane, mangy dogs who need to be hunted down and exterminated

what kind of savage, other than a jap where that inherent inhumane streak of
cruelty hasn't been bred out of you
animals yet, would deny health care and life to children and babies who are
totally helpless because it might cost him a few $$,

how much did it cost the millions of men and women who died for your right
to be sub-humans ?,

you worthless son of a bitch

[Strabo]

Post by ***@teranews.com

Post by lorad

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
For story and readers'
comments:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec...
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today.

So called 'appalling care' - is still better than NO CARE for fifty
million uninsured US citizens.
First of all, every one in America who walks in a hospital emergency room
will get their needs met,

bullshit, they may get some immediate care, no follow ups, no
continuing care or medications
why don't all you self serving, selfish, greedy, self centered japs and
hillbillies shut the hell up and go fuck yourselves,
you have no voice, you assholes never contributed to anything, you just took
all you could get for yourselves
while better men and women than you risked their lives for your freedom to
be complete, total, and utter
low down, inhumane, mangy dogs who need to be hunted down and exterminated
what kind of savage, other than a jap where that inherent inhumane streak of
cruelty hasn't been bred out of you
animals yet, would deny health care and life to children and babies who are
totally helpless because it might cost him a few $$,
how much did it cost the millions of men and women who died for your right
to be sub-humans ?,
you worthless son of a bitch

Medical care used to inexpensive. Most procedures could be paid out of
pocket. Health insurance was unknown. And then along came rules and
regulation driving up costs and concealing vast fraud and corruption.

This is the US where one is responsible for providing the basics of
survival for himself and his family.

Still, if one cannot afford commercial services there are charitable
and government options available but in the US no one is entitled to
be a ward of the state.

The "millions of men and women" died for our right to be free of
foreign and domestic government intrusion. Minimal government is the
hallmark of the US.

[JRW]

Post by ***@teranews.com

Post by lorad

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
For story and readers'
comments:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec...
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today.

So called 'appalling care' - is still better than NO CARE for fifty
million uninsured US citizens.
First of all, every one in America who walks in a hospital emergency room
will get their needs met,

bullshit, they may get some immediate care, no follow ups, no
continuing care or medications
why don't all you self serving, selfish, greedy, self centered japs and
hillbillies shut the hell up and go fuck yourselves,
you have no voice, you assholes never contributed to anything, you just took
all you could get for yourselves
while better men and women than you risked their lives for your freedom to
be complete, total, and utter
low down, inhumane, mangy dogs who need to be hunted down and exterminated
what kind of savage, other than a jap where that inherent inhumane streak of
cruelty hasn't been bred out of you
animals yet, would deny health care and life to children and babies who are
totally helpless because it might cost him a few $$,
how much did it cost the millions of men and women who died for your right
to be sub-humans ?,
you worthless son of a bitch

Absolutely correct. Anybody (uninsured) must be treated for immediate
life threatening needs. After care (uninsured), no way.
When I was back in the US on vacation I got sick,went to the hospital
and was treated immediately, no questions asked. While being treated a
kind administrator came in and asked if I carried insurance. I stated
yes, and here is my health care provider in Europe. He thanked me for
the information and asked that I stop by the finance desk after
treatment and everything should be done by the time the doctor was
finished. Well, he placed the telephone call to Europe informed them
that I was sick and being treated, he received immediate approval for my
treatment, medicine and AFTERCARE!!! Now I pay about 1/3 of what you all
pay for full cover blue cross blue shield plus dental. You can knock a
nationalized health care, fine, but I'll tell you I was treated like a
king, both in the US and upon return by my health care provider. This is
FIRST HAND!! So if you are thinking about second guessing the story try
somewhere else.

Additionally a few months after I received a bill from a doctors group
from the hospital. It seems that some places charge separately (doctors
vs hospital).
I called my insurer, they said, send us the bill, it will be paid. As a
courtesy, I called the doctors group in the US and advised that they
would receive payment from my insurer. The lady said she'd make a note
of it. Several weeks later I received an email from her that the bill
was paid.

Scare tactics in the US are pathetic. The rich want to stay rich at your
expense. Smarten up and for once help yourself and others to get a
harness on US healthcare and it's greed. I'm sure several with the big
mouths have stock options in major health related areas. Again, that
might be great for you, but you are screwing the rest of the middle
class and poor America.

[Jerry Okamura]

Post by ***@teranews.com

Post by lorad

Post by AnAmericanCitizen
For story and readers'
comments:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6092658/Cruel-and-neglec...
One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across
Britain, according to a major report released today.

So called 'appalling care' - is still better than NO CARE for fifty
million uninsured US citizens.
First of all, every one in America who walks in a hospital emergency room
will get their needs met,

bullshit, they may get some immediate care, no follow ups, no
continuing care or medications

SO? If you die, how much follow up do you need?